Morning Joe talks a draft

Posted: June 30, 2010 by datechguy in Afghanistan war, opinion/news
Tags: , , ,

Remember that it isn’t a question of what is best for the military, it’s the best way to get us to stop fighting.

He is excoriating people who have people who are not serving and has no risk, that is a point, but when it comes down to it all they are talking about is exit strategy, not a victory strategy.

Listen to what they are saying this morning, change the date and it would be Iran before the surge.

Barnicle is calling the draft a wonderful “vibrant” thing for the youth and Joe Conason is talking about it to get rid of unemployment.

How many of these people were fans of the draft before these wars? How many were against the draft in the 70’s.

So we have them pushing a draft, defeat is Afghanistan isn’t a bug, it’s a feature!

Update: Mika suggested a camera on every casket, lets use dead US troops as political props, if she is not ashamed of herself she ought to be.

Update 2: American Glob notices that this isn’t confined to Morning Joe and gets a well deserved Instalanche for his trouble. My deeper thoughts on the draft from several years ago are buried deep in here.

Comments
  1. Proud2Serve says:

    I fear you may be missing the point. Return to the premise of Marxism — government control. How dare the little people determine if they wish to serve, or not.

    The US military today is the highest educated and most professional force the world has ever seen. Recruiting and retention — despite nine years of war — are exceeding requirements. Only once during this period was there a shortfall. Currently the forces structure in all components is over 100% strength.

    Why dismantle this? Is there a problem? What is the crisis that compels many on the left to call for a draft?

    This is about control, nothing else.

    Now for the whacky conspiracy theory. Remember the above when the military culture is assaulted in the future. A crisis will provide the excuse to eliminate the volunteer force.

  2. -The US military today is the highest educated and most professional force the world has ever seen.-
    Ha! Educated and professional? Oh yes, we’ve never seen any kind of war rape, or torture, or pictures or soldiers taking photos with naked prisoners. That definately shows the amount of professionalism within the ranks.
    The weapons are more educated these days than the soldiers. If by educated you mean any nobody can sit at a control station and direct a missile from above to hit a laser sighted target then I’m educated myself since I do that playing MW2 a video game.

    The difference between our military and who we are currently fighting is this. Yes we have a highly trained military. Kids volunteer beginning at age 17 and do the boot camp thing.
    Whereas our foes have been learning and shooting weapons since they were actual children fighting the soviets, iranians, iraqis, and other invaders since the 1980s.

    I’ll take real combat experience over your education in this fight. The US may have the better weapons, but these people know the terrain. There is a reason why we are still in Afghanistan and Iraq. We haven’t won yet.

    -Recruiting and retention — despite nine years of war — are exceeding requirements-
    Well lets take a look at this statement as well. Hmm millions are out of work. The job market is horrible especially for graduating high school students, the main recruitment target. I ask where else can you go to get free housing, free meals, government provided health insurance, a secure job with the only downside being that its dangerous but only if you are sent to war where you could lose a limb, or even face death.
    There is no exit strategy so the job will most likely be long term as well. Also considering we still have forces in Europe and Japan since WWII we can only assume that in 70 years we will still have forces in the Middle East too. Job Security!

  3. Proud2Serve says:

    DaHospitalityGuy — spoken like someone who has been there . . . hmmm.

    I am a little surprised at the hostility in your posting. It doesn’t match well with your assumed commentor name.

    According to NationMaster.com, the average adult in the United States has a 12th grade education. This is the minimum standard for enlistment in the military. Officers must have a bachelors degree to be commissioned. If they wish to make rank beyond Major or Lieutenant Colonel, they better have at last one masters degree. If enlisted service members wish to make mid level rank, they will normally need at least an associate degree. Senior enlisted almost universally have bachelors or higher degrees. This does not include the many years of education all service members must undergo within the individual services if they wish to remain.

    The biggest problem facing recruiters today are the limited pool of acceptable recruits due to lack of education or criminal record.

    I have to admit I am always amazed that when the military catches a few bad apples each year (the entire military is over 1.5 million) — and prosecute them — that detractors place moral equivalence with our enemies who do not take captives. Unless, of course, they wish to film their torture and beheading. What is the likelihood that our enemies will hold each other accountable in a court of law? Historically, there is a simple test to determine whether a combatant (legal or otherwise) views their adversary as a moral opponent. Will they surrender to the opponent? This is why the US and its allies have captured thousands prisoners in the last ten years, and our service members will fight to the death. Those fighting understand the lay of the land.

    As for your argument that recruiting and retention success is directly related to the financial crisis: You would have a very strong argument if the economic downturn occurred in 2002. Instead, it is twenty months old (depending upon which statistician you listen to). Even during the bloodiest years, when the economy was going gangbusters, the military exceeded all requirements except for once.

    As for your reference to societies growing up at war, I grant you that these societies have a greater ability to accept suffering and hardship than US society. This does not, however, equate to trained professional forces. That takes time resources, and an educated population (i.e. read about Rome at the height of their power). That, and of course one of purposes of military training is to prepare service members for hardship and — if necessary — death. If persistent conflict were the bedrock for superior military prowess, the nations of Africa would be competing over which of them ruled the earth.

    I won’t address the strategic questions at this time. They do not pertain to my original comment. Perhaps at a later opportunity.

  4. […] Then I saw that DaTechGuy, who I know watches Morning Joe, saw the same thing and actually blogged about it. […]

  5. LTC John says:

    “I’ll take real combat experience over your education in this fight.”

    We have both. This is a mistake of thinking a ‘fighter’ is better than a ‘soldier’. We face ‘fighters’ – the old saw used to be when the French had invaded Ottoman Eygpt… one Mameluke vs. one French Dragoon = dead Frenchie, ten Mamelukes vs ten Dragoons = a draw, 100 Mamelukes vs 100 Dragoons = a lot of dead Mamelukes.

    Training, discipline, cohesion, situational awareness and the like are not often found outside of professional militaries, not in any appreciable amount that is. Equipment and weapons matter too – “whatever happens we have got, the Maxim Gun and they have not” didn’t get said for no reason.

    But when I watched the Jaish al Mahdi fleeing Basra, it wasn’t because guys were video gaming missles onto them. The IA went in and knocked them silly…

  6. Michael says:

    Lawmaker files to reinstate draft (1981) – http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xVAfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=09EEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3821,4023905&dq=reinstate+draft&hl=en

    Bill proposes to reinstate draft (1987) – http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oQEzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5xMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5767,2199317&dq=reinstate+draft&hl=en

    Rangel introduces bill to reinstate draft (2003) – http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/

    Rangel Calls for Reinstating Military Draft (2006) – http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230598,00.html

    Flurry of Calls About Draft, and a Day of Denials (2006) – http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/23/washington/23draft.html?ref=us

    Murtha says draft would ease military’s burden (2007) – http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_501115.html

    McChrystal Affair Proves Why U.S. Needs Draft (2010) – http://www.globe-democrat.com/news/2010/jun/29/shields-mcchrystal-affair-proves-why-us-needs-draf/

    This seems to be a consistently popular theme on the left.

  7. Tim K. says:

    I actually believe a year or two of Military service for every American citizen would be for the better good of our Nation. It’s a shame that a majority of 99% of Citizenry depend on 1% of American Citizens for their defense home and overseas.

  8. Dolly says:

    How Typical. A boomer like Mike Barnicle very likely applauded the burning of draft cards. But now that they’re too old to serve, why bring it back.

  9. […] similar things have been said lately. What’s in the coffee over […]

  10. […] Thought #1: All this draft […]

  11. cargosquid says:

    As a veteran, though not a combat veteran, I will say that the majority of those in the services do NOT want draftees. DaHospitalityGuy can’t be more wrong. The men and women in the services are highly educated. Though many may not have more than high school education, I saw Marines and Soldiers reading college level history and economics books. Any that are E-5 and above have been through very technical and demanding schools. In the Navy, nuclear engineering is taught to 18 year olds. These are motivated, smart, dangerous people.
    As for the myth of the super warrior, the tribesmen in Afghanistan are not the same as those that fought the Russians. In a word, they can’t shoot worth a damn. We have to teach Aflghanis how to properly use a rifle. The rifle tactics now used by the Taliban are not the disciplined fire control of the their forefathers. Those in Iraq, following the lead of soldiers and marines, finally started aiming, not spraying, their rounds. Most Afghanis and Iraqis ARE NOT warriors. The Taliban’s current “soldiers” are in their 20’s, and have not had to actually fight. They were lording it over the rest of the Afghanis.
    We have the best trained, most professional, combat experienced, military of anyone in the world. The Brits and the Canadians are the only countries that might be able to match us in experience for some units that have fought with us.

  12. LTC John says:

    “I actually believe a year or two of Military service for every American citizen would be for the better good of our Nation.”

    Please, no. The Armed Forces are not a social development program. We are the war-guardians of the Nation. I don’t want anyone except someone who wants to be there, and is ready to fight – if needed, alongside me.

    cargo – DaHospitalityGuy also misses intiative, understanding of tactics – studying your enemy, a culture of adaptation/lessons learned. I would love to see the Taliban’s version of the CALL, or their AAR process…