Prayer and Probability

Posted: June 20, 2009 by datechguy in catholic, opinion/news, personal
Tags: , ,

People often laugh at the idea of prayer imagine a grown adult asking an invisible power to adjust something for them. Prayer is also attacked as an assault on free will. For example the reporter who attacked pro-life people for praying that president Obama have a change of heart.

I have a theory on prayer, this is not to my knowledge based in specific theology, so someone who knows the church better than me can tell me if I’m committing heresy but consider the following:

How many things in life are actually certain? Very few. Spock’s example of letting go of a hammer and not having to see it to know has fallen not withstanding everything is subject to a certain amount of probability.

The medical field is a great example, you are always dealing with a level of probability on recovery from operations, risks from behaviors and so on. An excellent example is that we all know people who have avoided cancer and non smokers who have gotten it. This is a function of probability. Haven’t we all had close calls of one type or another? Or bad luck that has come hitting that one stone that was loose to trip and break a leg etc?

In my opinion this is where prayer comes in, I believe prayer can alter the probabilities on situation and actions. Since the actions are indeterminate (we don’t know for sure how they will go) it seems simply a function of luck. I believe that the power of prayer is basically channeling the intrinsic link between God and man and the community of saints to nudge probability. The stronger the link of the individual to God or the number of people involved prayer the better the chance of the odds moving.

That doesn’t effect the idea that God is a part of it, for example because a wind comes to help a becalmed ship and the wind is a natural phenomena that doesn’t mean that God allowed it to come.

This is in contarast to direct action by God that would be classified as a miracle. In that case you can have either objectively impossible action (Joshua and the sun) or an action so improbable that it seems to be no odds take place. (Curing of the blind man). Those are solid miracles.

Anyways that’s my theory. What do you think?

Update: Corrected awful spelling and grammar in post as it was rushed due to the party today.

  1. robertjamesjohnson says:

    No man (or woman) may see God and live, so it would follow that faith would come into it, prayer has achieved great works, and faith is part of those works, Jesus walked upon the water, not to show off God’s power,
    but to show what faith can do, so keep on praying with faith that it will be answered, and with endurance, you will be answered.

    Mathew 6:9-13, with a Through Jesus Christ Amen,
    on the end.

  2. robertjamesjohnson says:

    So, you believe in God, and belive in prayer, to an extent, depending on who is praying.
    Why do you not try it, you will be amazed at what you find out, if that prayer is a genuine one, from the heart.
    It is all very well to go on dissecting everything, but people usually have to hit the bottom before they are at a point where they can drop their pretenses and call out to the higher power, but that is what is meant to happen, and if prayer enhances probability then all well and good.

  3. robertjamesjohnson says:

    Dear Datechguy,
    As you are probably aware, i refuse to remain anonimous when i am writing about my beliefs, but i would remain so if i were you, because the catholic church, the one my earthly father was a part of, is all part of the systematic lie that has been loaded on to the poor souls on earth, simply to turn them away from the real deal, so to speak, and being a fairly new addition to the fold, i can tell you that i have always feared church buildings and priests, for reasons i could never understand, until i learned the truth through those that are totally commited to the uncovering of the treuth, i.e. the word of God, Jesus christ, not on a cross, which is an afront to Jesus anyway, and a sure way to keep the truth from the people (it is called the apostacy).
    You may or may not know that there is no such thing as Holy water, you cannot be part of the body of Christ by being fed a peace of rice paper, you cannot be baptised until you are fully adult in spirit, (some have been baptised early in certain circumstances) you must know the theme and be competant in the holy scripture, and you must call on God by name as jesus directed. If anyone would like to know where these things are written, please ask and i will advise, although i am just a miserable sinner, like everybody else, but i would like to advance to the next level, which is ever lasting life. Jehovah God, bless you all.

  4. robertjamesjohnson says:

    By the way, God created science, for our benefit, not to usurp everlasting life (stealing his fruit) and try to invade his domain (tower of Babel). God’s kingdom was established in 1914, when Christ Jesus hurled the satan down from heaven, with his rebelious cohorts, and we have been minced up by the hundred thousands (as this made him quite angry) ever since, in ever more complicated ways i.e. scientific, heralding the coming of the end of this system of things, and showing that we are all soon to be judged, as to wether we are with him or against him (Bush type ultimatum) but God doesn’t make you offers you cannot refuse, like satan, gansters, and military governments like Bush’s or Obama’s, he gives you a free joice, and i know who’s side i am on, i fear losing God’s love more than death. how about you?. dear ones.

  5. robertjamesjohnson says:

    p.s. sorry for hoggomg your site, i will go to my own now, thanks.

  6. robertjamesjohnson says:

    dyslexic, sorry for bad spelling. ta ta.

  7. robertjamesjohnson says:

    Ok, let me run this by you.
    Where do saints come from, from God or from man?
    If you take the case of saint nicholas, old lovable santa ( anag. satan or old nick) with his godlike white beard, jolly laugh and his twisting of the gifts given to christ as a baby, (“he keeps masqerading as an angel of light”) was devised by corperates trying to sell their doctrines, i mean taking the red attire as usurping the blood of christ, appealing to the little children, like coca cola’s red can, it’s a lie that adults use to try to control them when they want to get drunk and fornicate, the whole face of the catholic church is steeped in controlling the masses by guilt, and why would they do that? To rob them of money, which all belongs to satan or ceasar,(pay ceasar what belongs to him, but pay God what belongs to God) I know, whats this to do with catholicism, well it’s christmas, isn’t it? What day was Christ born, december 25th? No, his birth was more like october 20th, or there abouts, (and anyway, as you are pretty deeply concerned with the historic details, this could turn out to be an epic discourse, so i am trying to keep it as short as i can) and as the end nears the truth will emerge, so wether the catholic church has been around for 1400 yrs, and nothing has changed, i would guess that it isn’t the true faith, or we would all be living in a world without sin, the end of the age of gentiles in 1914, was a key moment in the establishment of Gods true Kingdom through Christ, and i am sure that i will not be getting through to some on this one, but i assure you that all the money that the catholics have accumulated over the years has not gone to the porrest, but to those that serve without question like say that reveared family of fame, headed by the pope.
    I must admit i havent taken your advice to read those sections as yet, but i will have a look soonish. Thanks for not barring me from your site, Yet?

  8. […] Saints and sainthood how it works By datechguy In a previous thread a question was asked concerning saints. Namely does God make saints or does […]

  9. robertjamesjohnson says:

    Thank’s datechguy

    You certainly know your stuff, and obviously put in alot of effort in finding the answers, so i am not going to questuion you anymore on the subject.

    I was looking specifically at the anagramic clues, and the fact that satan is always hiding behind some kind of mask, there is so much information to go through that i do not think there is enough time in the universe to find any definite answer, especially in my own case, as regards convincing others.

    As always i must rely on the old chestnuts, Seek and you will find, as long as you can handle what you do find, in the end, which is only about 8 years away.

    Will continue to view your well researched material, unless God tells me not to?.

  10. robertjamesjohnson says:

    (It is a shame that you avoided the truth, and the points i made.)

  11. robertjamesjohnson says:

    C.S Lewis is hardly an example, a profiteer not a prophet, the more distraction there is for the poor unfortunate people, the less they are likely to attain the required knowledge for admittance into God’s kingdom.
    The problems of the world are deliberate attacks on God’s laws and requirements, if we continue to look elsewhere for answers, other than the Holy Scriptures, i am sure we will only make things more difficult for ourselves.
    Recently, on radio a program, the head of the catholic church in britain was asked if there was an iconic figure that people could look up to, in order to alleviate the downturn in prosperity, somone to inspire the people, Rev Rowan Williams put forward his choice.. Richard Branson…
    Do you think that Jesus was far from his mind and heart, antichrists are everywhere, you have to be honest with the evidence or it is just a distraction away from God.
    Really datechguy, prayer is the answer, if directed toward the true God, and through his son, a sacrifice, a ransom, to prove a lie that satan made against God.
    I despair at the way you avoid God, and fear you are a small part of the reason that God is so far from peoples hearts and minds.
    I wonder if you approve of the priests that prayed for victory over the enemy in the 2 world wars, priests on both sides, all catholics, praying for the mass death of people not far removed from eachother.
    And, on the end of the world and such, contact me in 10 years, and let me know if you still maintain your views.
    The trouble is that man is obsessed with his own destiny, in his own hands, yet “man is not even able to direct his own foot”, this “Yes We Can” attitude is going to drag alot of people into a fire that lasts forever, so forget the other books and doctrines and just think for a minute, is it right to go against the law that is responcible for your existance?.
    Fare thee well, datechguy, i will certainly include YOU in my prayers.

  12. robertjamesjohnson says:

    p.s. Ever lasting fire means truth without argument, like the double edged sword of christ, not a weapon for killing, a truth that cannot be argued with.

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