…in three sentences.
My wife is starting a new job, we will be getting new insurance because of it. We are REQUIRED to provide not only our marriage certificate but the long form copies of the birth certificates of both of our children.
Having to produce a birth certificate is not an irregular occurrence for the average person so when Trump says this to the general public, they understand it.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, It’s my opinion that the president is born in Hawaii, I believe that the reason for withholding permission for the certificate was to keep this alive as a club to beat people with, but I’m starting to think it is backfiring. The whole idea that something is being hidden is so embedded in the public’s mind that it establishes an idea of “otherness” that is going to hurt come re-election time. This is the law of unintended consequences.
I’m also thinking that the willingness of Trump to say aloud what a lot of other people are thinking but not saying is going to help a lot with people who aren’t involved every day. This is the 2nd time Trump has done this and both times its paid off.
Do I think he will win the nomination? No, will he make things interesting in terms of the MSM? Yup.
Update: On Morning Joe just now Joe Scarborough nailed it pointing out that the liberal audience of the View applauded when Trump said this. If the White House doesn’t see that this is trouble then they ought to. And the attempt to describe Trump as “going birther”, Mika’s disgust and the exiling of the segment to the “News you can’t use” segment doesn’t change the fact that an awful lot of people saw him say it and heard that applause.
Update 2: In comments Haiku Guy nails it big time.
What Trump is doing
Is giving us permission
To ask the question.
Exactly right.
Update 3: Here is the clip:
That audience response tells the story.
Update 4: CNN is on it.
Update 5: Great minds think alike: Bill Jacobson:
Listen to the crowd reaction beginning at the 2:08 mark, as Donald Trump vigorously and repeatedly states “I want him to show the birth certificate.” The crowd claps loudly to Trump’s words. (It seems an unlikely time for the producers to have flashed an applause light, so it is fair to assume the crowd reaction was spontaneous.)
Update 6: Now a memorandum thread. Since Robert Stacy McCain is sick today I’ll steal his line to Hit DaTipJar and encourage you all to check out my Radio Show this Saturday at 10 a.m. on WCRN AM 830 you can listen online here.
Update 7: Treacher at the Daily caller hits both of my points:
That’s why I don’t put any stock in the Birther stuff. If it were true, wouldn’t Hillary’s people have dug it up and used it?
and
But what’s really revealing here is that not only is he not laughed off the stage, but he gets a couple of applause breaks for it. Hey, Barry, when you start to lose the hens who’ll actually sit through a taping of The View…
…and this thread is still generating comments.
Update 8: Salon declares Trump irrelevant, and then spends 10 paragraphs going after him.
Da Techguy's (no longer backup) Blog 
I think the reason why this wasn’t used in the last election was simply that John McCain wasn’t actually born in the country. McCain couldn’t attack Obama for not being born in the country without drawing an attack of his own. It would look ridiculous.
The next republican candidate won’t have this problem.
Personally I think he is a space alien. Be that as it may, the real problem is that he is an incompetent socialist.
What Trump is doing
Is giving us permission
To ask the question.
You can’t mariginalize
A celebrity like Trump.
There is no defense.
Time to end this game.
It is no longer worth it.
Put up or shut up.
“My wife is starting a new job, we will be getting new insurance because of it. We are REQUIRED to provide not only our marriage certificate but the long form copies of the birth certificates of both of our children.”
Today I am renewing my drivers permit. I need four forms of identification.
1. Proof of identity, date of birth and lawful status.
2. Proof of Social Security number.
3. Two documents to prove my principal address.
It takes more documentation than you need to be president.
Retrieving this documentation is simple.
So why can’t our president, with all his minions, produce his?
Just askin’.
C I think it’s a question of why Mrs. Clinton wouldn’t have used it. Not McCain
Fat Man that is correct, I think the Certificate is not relevant expect as a background thought, if he was performing well it would not make a difference.
I’ve heard speculation that Obama’s birth certificate may contain evidence that his biological father was Frank Marshall Davis. If you don’t know who Davis was, Google him. Frank Marsahall Davis is the story Obama and the MSM has buried.
C – Re McCain, sorta true but irrelevant. He was born in a US military hospital, on a US military base (Panama Canal Zone) where his naval-officer father was stationed, and both his parents were US citizens. People in similar situations have ALWAYS been deemed to be US citizens by birth.
Datechguy nails it by saying if there’d “been any there there” regarding Ogabe’s birth/citizenship status, the Clintons – by far the smartest, savviest political operators in recent history – would have found it. And I think Dagney77 nails it as well with the assertion that the longform BC says Hawaii, but also says something potentially really embarrassing.
Obama has failed
The worst President ever
Jimmy Carter smiles!
Forget the birth certificate, let’s see his Columbia and Harvard transcripts! After all, the MSM says that he is so smart, so why doesn’t he prove it?
Have you seen the comments from that Hawaiian Election official who claims he could not find any evidence of a long form birth certificate. Also, have you seen the comments from that Friend of Hawaiian Governor Neil Abercrombie claiming that Abercrombie couldn’t find it either?
Just saying, there is enough circumstantial evidence out there (University of Washington enrollment document) that makes it not unreasonable to question if he was even born in Hawaii.
Dagney presents one example of something Obama may have to hide. There are many others — which explains Obama’s suppresssion of academic transcripts and test scores.
Mr. Obama is a cardboard cut-out. Constructed of paper, shaped to look like a viable candidate and capable presidential material, the huge, well-heeled campaign fooled the voters.
Very creative, very timely, every effective politically. Eventually the fact that he cannot lead will grow more obvious. But that may not happen for most voters until after his re-election.
I guess I just don’t understand all of this. Since the President of the United States is required by the Constitution to be a “natural born” citizen, what sort of documentation is required of a candidate for this office to prove that s/he is a “natural born” citizen? I would hope to God they are not lower then the requirements for getting a driver’s license. For argument’s sake, if they are, and if Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen and thus entitled to be President, then why not provide the evidence to silence the birthers. I know that if I were in his shoes, I would. Is the “club” that another poster mentioned the ability to call a “birther” a racist and/or prejudiced as Whoopi called Mr. Trump. For the love of God, show the damn certificate and put an end to this…
[…] Obama, his birth certificate, and Donald Trump. Read it. No […]
I hoping one or two states will pass a statute detailing the document requirements to be on the ballot for president. Either Obama will produce the document or he won’t run in that state. hard to win if you can’t run in all 57 states.
Yes, Obama should publish his real birth certificate. But he won’t. And this is why (50/50):
1. His birthplace is outside of the United States. And so what? So is McCain’s. Obama is the son of an American mother and so he is an American citizen. But what if Mummy renounced her citizenship in her revolutionary fervor? This is actually kind of hard to do now, the United Nations Declaration is against it. (Haha! Sorry, just a sec…)
2. His birth certificate says, “Muslim.”
None of these things really matter.
Long story short, because Adolf Hitler was staatlos in Germany after renouncing his Austrian citizenship, stateless people are seen are problematic, so everyone is “assigned” a nation by the UN. Now, even before this, the U.S. was in the habit of accepting people back: think of it as an international hygienic protocol. So if his mom did renounce, the U.S. would likely have accepted her back anyway. But it would be immediately contested and, ultimately, come down to nothing more than a judge’s opinion as to whether the light bulb really wanted to renounce its nationality.
Finally, if his birth certificate really does say Muslim, and if we accept that the Rev. Wright’s church is… nominally… Christian, then he is an apostate, a religious unperson, a legitimate assassination target in most of the Middle East. Now, while we might cheer W when he said, “Bring it on,” we must be clear that Obama is no Bush and not likely to weather such a storm well. For the peace of mind of the American nation, and our foreign policy, I hereby approve of the CIA breaking into the Hawai’ian Hall of Records, scratching out “Muslim” and substituting “Christian.”
So there.
Good post. I think Obama was born in Hawaii. But the way that Trump frames it makes sense.
Proof of being born in America would only silence those that want to know. Publicizing ‘O’s Havard transcripts would only prove that not all good presidents come from there.
He’s a pretty crappy president now. One can only suppose Harvard doesn’t want you to know how crappy.
[…] part of my mission to persuade Dave that the issue has traction note, this: My wife is starting a new job, we will be getting new insurance because of it. We are REQUIRED to […]
Never have understood why the O has spent so much money suppressing the birth certificate, Hasrvard and Columbia transcripts, any transcripts from California schools, the fact that he had to have had financial aid and those applications thereto, multiple ssn’s, Barry Soetoro. There is just too much out there. If all is on the up and up, why does he go to such great lengths to hide it?
As to whether the Clintons could dig it up, maybe they have and don’t want to reveal it,yet. As it were, they have their foibles which they do not want brought out in public, particularly Hillary. Bill’s problems are bimbos, and recreational substances. Hillary is far more sinister. Plus to reveal anything negative about Obama would have painted the Clintons as racist, costing them a large part of their base.
No one except ultra-right-wing-conservatives take Trump seriously. He just wants to get on the ‘money making’ bandwagon of running for President–that has benefited Newt Gingrich’s pocket book for years.
1. Is it true Obama’s half sister has the same Hawaii certificate of live birth that Obama does? There is no disputing that SHE was born in Indonesia.
2. Obama could end the controversy once and for all by signing a simple one line release form authorizing Hawaii to release the long form birth certificate. Why does he not do that? Some possible answers:
A. There is no LFBC.
B. There is something on the LFBC that Obama does not want the world to see. (My speculation is that it would show his legal name at birth was not Barack Hussein Obama Jr., but, rather, was something more mainstream perhaps Barry Obama or even Barry Dunham. That revelation would only beg more questions: Was there ever a legal name change? Why no mention of a legal name change in either autobiography? What motivated the name change? Did the emerging African American identity and radicalism alluded to throughout Dreams of My Father causet him to jettison a “slave name”? An adult changing their legal name for political motives is a serious matter and one that is
perfectly legitimate for voters to consider in assessing a candidacy.)
C. There is nothing on the LFBC and Obama is withholding it for very calculated political purposes. This is the real explanation, I think. By creating an entire class of critics that can be dismissed with a single pejorative — birther — Obama has very cunningly made ALL inquiry into his background illegitimate, even deranged. Whether they are (1) questions about the mysterious trip he took to Pakistan in 1981 — a fact that he failed to disclose in TWO autobiographies, (2) questions about how much a role affirmative action played in what even Obama admits was an indifferent and unaccomplished student’s admissions into two prestigious, highly selective Ivy League universities, or (3) why Obama’s Illinois Senate records have never been produced.
This way, ANY and ALL questions about Obama’s background are dismissed by an abetting press as the fevered delusions of deranged “birthers”.
Make no mistake, Donald Trump, of all people, is doing his country a great service. By legitimizing these questions, he legitimizes all questions about Obama’s vastly unknown background.
I think the issue is not to create an issue, but because his father is a muslim. Thus, in islam, where the religion passes down through the father, Barak would have been muslim at birth and this is noted on his birth certificate. Barak would not want this fact to be made public as it would reinforce in many people’s minds that he is muslim. However, this is not to say that I believe he is a muslim. I believe he is more agnostic or areligious and if he has a religion it is Christianity.
Reply to Bellemundo’s comment about Obama and “financial aid”.
One of the biggest fabrications in Obama’s political autobiography is that he comes from a modest, even impoverished background.
We know the mother was essentially unstable. At about the time Obama was in the fifth grade, about 10 years old, the decision was made to remove him from Indonesia and send him to live with his grandparents in Honolulu. He lived with them until graduating from high school and leaving Hawaii to attend college in Los Angeles at Occidental.
In Indonesia, Obama lived as the adopted child of an oil company executive. His circumstances only improved when he went to live with his grandparents in Hawaii. Obama’s grandmother, Madeline Dunham, Toot as Obama called her, was a senior vice president in Hawaii’s oldest, largest and richest bank. She was responsible for the escrow department a critical and lucrative function in Hawaii’s scalding hot real estate market. Obama lived with her and his grandfather in a penthouse apartment in downtown Honolulu befitting a bank vice president. Madeline Dunham, was earning big bucks and could well afford to send Obama to Hawaii’s most elite private prep school.
Inquiry into Obama’s financial aid would probably reveal there was very little, as one might expect of the dependent of a Sr. Vice President of a large bank.
Ah, but what if the Clintons HAD dug it up, and are using Trump as their stalking horse to keep their hands clean?
Actually Tadef right wing conservatives don’t take Trump seriously as a candidate, that’s not the point, the point is by saying what everyone is already thinking to a general public he affirms a thought that hurts Obama.
“I believe that the reason for withholding permission for the certificate was to keep this alive as a club to beat people with,”
Abecrombe, the new governor of Hawaii ,went to look for it to dispell the rumors and he couldn’t find it. THERE IS NOT BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
I don’t know if that means Obomber wasn’t born in Hawaii but it needs an explanation. Maybe he is ineligible to be president, maybe he has lied about how his father is.
Look at the world net daily web site for articles on the subject of eligibility.
Google “who is obama’s father”
All this ridicule of “birthers” is proof enough for me that there is something to hide. You can always tell which side of the controversy doesn’t have facts on their side. They are the ones who resort to ridicule because they can’t make their case with facts and logic.
Ridiculing the voters is not a good campaign strategy.
The democrats are losing the swing voters by calling them racists because they think the government is spending too much money. Those insulted voters will remember who insulted them on election day far into the future.
I think that, like here in Michigan, when Barry’s mother married Lolo Soetero, Barry’s birth certificate was changed and his legal name is Barry Soetero. When he went to college he found it more acceptable in left-wing circles to use his birth father’s African sounding name and he never got around to changing it back legally. So his legal name is NOT Obama but Soetero and that is why a birth certificate under the name Obama can’t be located and his real one is not being shown. Something similar may be evidenced on his college transcripts. He may be listed on some as Soetero and he’s maybe even listed as having received a scholarship as a foreign (Indonesian) student. Makes sense to me that something like this is what’s being hidden from us, not that he wasn’t born in the USA.
Glad to hear Mrs. Da Tech Guy is again employed.
Also quite pleased at you perseverance.
Praise the good Lord above.
[…] Tech Guy, a good blogger of the Catholic persuasion, has a nice post: “Why Trump’s Birth Certificate statement will […]
To say the question is racist is so maddening to me. Cannot Whoopi understand that because Obama’s father was clearly not a citizen and because his mother was too young at his birth to confer citizenship according to the law at the time, that WHERE he was born is very relevant.
I believe the Constitution says a president must have been born a citizen, not that s/he must have been born in the US. So even if another president was born outside the US (say his parents were on vacation and he was born unexpectedly while they were gone) it would be irrelevant because of parents who were clearly citizens, in addition to the fact that they lived their entire lives in the US.
It’s really not that complicated why Obama’s situation is different, Whoopi.
Smitty considering where you and where I am it’s very ironic to hear you complement men on perseverance.
Stay safe and well.
Whoopi and others say that no other president has been asked about his birthplace. This is false.
Chester Arthur was alleged to have been born in Canada and Eisenhower was rumored to have been born in Europe. Arthur was even a dual citizen.
I watched Hannity last night and Jerry Springer also stated that no other president has been questioned on his birthplace. I wonder if this is some talking point going around?
Trump is just confirming anyone can ask a stupid question. Regardless of where he was born (and I’m with the majority on Hawaii) he was born to at least one American parent. Even if born in Kenya he is simplay an American born abroad.
There’s an old saying in social work that we’re only as sick as our secrets. One wonders what secrets Mr. Obama harbors.
here’s my theory on why he doesnt want to show the BC~
His given name at birth was Barry Dunham
He changed his name at 18 or thereabouts to Barack Hussein Obama and embraced his father’s heritage and religion, making a trip to PockEeestahn as he likes to enunciate it. This is nothing new to Americans, we all know Muhhamed Ali and Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
Then,m being Zelig as he is and having no identity of his own, when he went to Chicago he became Jeremiah Wright brand of Christian. He has said Wright baptised him and brought him to Christianity. Again, nothing new or shocking for Americans, we have all met someone with a conversion story.
The problem for Obama with all this, is 1, he believes we are all bitter clingers with antipathy to people who are ‘different’ so he never wanted to discuss his years as a Muslim convert.
2. He lied. A lot. The MSM didnt do its job, He called everyone birthers and racist. And he was hiding something.
3. The biggest issue IMO, is it reveals who Obama is, or more to the point, isnt. He is Mr Nowhere Man.
He is whomever he is around at the moment. He REFLECTS other people, he isnt anyone himself.
This is why the Libyan action is, like every other Obama action, really an inaction, or forced reaction.
Poor Hillary, every time she and Gates leave the room Obama changes his mind when Jarrett or Trumka walk in.
Thus there is no US policy on anything. We have a chameleon as POTUS.,
I dont think having converted to Islam precludes you from being POTUS. I think it would undo the ‘helpful’ aspects the Left claimed he brought by being the child of an African Muslim dad with the middle name Hussein. Remember how they all claimed this would lead to the Islamic world embracing us? HA HA what’s the way they will respond to an apostate? Yeah.
The problem is he has no CORE IDENTITY of his own. No religious convictions, No economic convictions (hell ,he isnt even a consistent, reliable socialist, he shouldve nationalized the TBTF).
This country is too important to the world as an economic and military power to be led by someone with absolutely NO CORE BELIEFS OR POSITIONS. It leaves the world ruderless.
Barry Dunham would have to answer a lot of questions.
Maybe we could find out about his tranny nanny. I wonder what he/she used for a pacifier? Could have lotsa fun with this, make Odumbo look like a got milk ad.
[…] Why Trump’s Birth Certificate Statement Will Resonate – DaTechGuy […]
May I put this on a different footing?
Stipulate that President Obama was born in Hawaii to Stanley Ann Obama, nee Dunham, and Barack H. Obama Sr. Stipulate that everything is in order, that there’s no real reason to release the (perfectly legitimate) long-form birth certificate except that the President chooses not to do so. (That’s the reason given in re his school transcripts, and nobody doubts his status in Columbia or Harvard.) If you like, assume that the President is doing this in order to milk the Birther issue for as long as he can, to gain maximum political advantage from it.
Stipulate all that. Now, then — I don’t like my President keeping secrets from me for political advantage, not “secrets” that, for anyone else, would be a matter of public record long since.
This might be reasonable if President Obama had said: “I value my privacy, and I will take steps to protect it, just as I will do my utmost to protect yours.” But that’s not his approach, is it? President Obama doesn’t seem to care that much about OUR secrets. (Remember when Joe the Plumber’s background was dragged through the mud, and Senator Obama said nothing?) He was for abolishing union secret ballots, was he not? ObamaCare would hand over our confidential medical records to the government, would it not?
This isn’t personal, by the way. I likewise didn’t like the deliberate withholding of relevant records when John Kerry did it.
respectfully,
Daniel in Brookline
A few Points:
I find it amusing that people who generally support state sovereignty are asking the President to override a State policy for his political ends.
I have obtained many services over the years from health insurance to a driver’s license but NOT ONCE have I ever had the requirement of a long form.
I was born in Texas and when I last order my BC I got a sheet like Obama’s but only a HALF sheet long and it was an acceptable BC.
Lastly, the Governor of Hawaii did not say he couldn’t find the BC. The reporter lied. Or he misspoke, that is. He admitted it HERE: http://fxn.ws/fs941e but the lie is out there now and everyone talks about it being the truth.
Occam’s Razor: “The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one”. Obama does not have a long-form birth certificate. The evidence? Obama himself:
“You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to the inheritance. Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was. So of all of the Old Man’s kids, Mark’s claim is the only one that’s uncontested.” Page 345 Dreams From My Father
If he had it, he would produce it. The Obama team produced the short form “Certification of Live Birth” in the hopes the whole thing would blow over. There’s no Machiavellian long game here. He flat-out doesn’t have a long-form birth certificate.
Consider this: neither Honolulu hospital in operation at the time of Obama’s birth has a record of it. Yet both facilities have been cited as the place of his birth. 49 years is a long time, but don’t you think at least a couple hospital employees would check through their records or search their memories and tell the world “I was Obama’s attending physician.” or “I was the attending nurse.” There weren’t a whole lot of African-Americans in Hawaii back then, and even fewer back/white inter-racial children. The point is, it would be a memorable event.
Hawaii’s governor, Neil Abercrombie, claims to remember seeing Obama as a child on the streets of Honolulu with his grandfather. Don’t you think the people involved in his birth would remember it?
McCain is an American citizen. American military bases are considered American soil. He has a birth certificate that he was quite willing to show, and did.
Whether Obama was born in Hawaii or not, it still begs the question why he has spent so much money NOT producing his BC.
And yeah, I’d like to see those transcripts, too. I do not understand how Obama was able to run producing less documentation (including medical records) than anyone else in recent history. How did THAT happen?
[…] . . to ask about Obama’s long-form birth certificate […]
GreaterSapien says:
March 24, 2011 at 12:00 pm
l
“Lastly, the Governor of Hawaii did not say he couldn’t find the BC. The reporter lied. Or he misspoke, that is. He admitted it HERE: http://fxn.ws/fs941e but the lie is out there now and everyone talks about it being the truth.”
Of all the things I wish to refute, this I suppose is the one I most wish to refute. The “Reporter” who is a very close friend of Neil Abercrombie, renounced all of his original claims. When he was making his original claims (that Gov. Abercrombie told him there WAS no long form birth certificate.) he was doing so quite deliberately and vociferously.
His immediate renunciation of what he was swearing to just days earlier is proof more of having been chastised by his friend Abercrombie, than anything else. He was telling the truth original, his renunciation is the lie.
What I want to know is how Obama and his minions got two separate newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 to announce a birth from his parents of a boy named “Barack Hussein Obama”
No one has ever bothered to find out just who made that those newspaper announcements in 1961. I’m just saying this conspiracy has legs and they go back 50 years.
This should be investigated and the media, especially this site, should demand answers as to how decades-long scheme can continue.
DaTG:
” We are REQUIRED to provide not only our marriage certificate but the long form copies of the birth certificates of both of our children.
That’s a lie. You’re lying. You are a liar.
How do I know that? Because there’s no such thing as a “long form” birth certificate.
I disagree with your argument that the birth certificate is being kept hidden to be used as a club. That maybe so now, but he was keeping it a secret long before it became a club. Theres definitely something there he don’t want us to see. He had lawyers defending its release throughout his election campaign
If you are a certified liberal, you have the God given right to marginalize anyone who disagrees with you regardless of any supposed credentials they may have. Why is it so hard for conservatives to understand this? Do they have a comprehension problem. I have never seen a group of people so dense.
Can you please show me the wording that requires a ‘long form’ birth certificate? I know plenty of people who have moved, lost possessions during disruptive personal relationships, or otherwise had floods or fires and lost their copy of the birth certificate. Fortunately, the government keeps the official record – as is the case with Obama. What are you referring to with ‘long form’ and can you show the exact wording of the insurance company’s request? I don’t believe they would be allowed to deny you insurance if your spouse’s parents had lost her paperwork from when she was a child.
Back when New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey was on the verge of being indicted for various crimes I predicted that his way out of the mess would be to stop denying all of the swirling rumors over his sexual orientation, because the resulting cultural panic would make people completely forget about the bribery and corruption.
McGreevey did my prediction one better by announcing at a press conference that “His truth was that he was a Gay American”. Brilliant! The man never served a day in jail.
I gotta suspect that people are thinking along similar lines in the Obama White House right now. Things are just going to keep on getting worse, because Obama has dug a hole from which there is no digging out. Libya is the cherry on top of the sh!t sundae of his own creation. So, what is a President to do?
Simple. Stop denying the Birther rumors. Admit that you are not a native-born citizen. The resulting Constitutional crisis would make everybody completely forget about everything else. Obama can be hounded out of office with his head held high and the idiots on the Left can talk for another fifty years about how great a President he might have been…
My prediction is that somewhere in the basement of the White House, people are trying to concoct an innocent explaination of how Obama could run for President without realizing that he is Constitutionally ineligible. I’m guessing that Momma is about to go under the bus. Of course, her deception would have come out of a mother’s earnest desire for her child to have a better life as an American citizen, so maybe she doesn’t have to go under the bus at all.
You jfxgillis sir can take a flying leap, but for the sake of others who might bother to believe you here is the exact words from the back of the Genesis Health Care 2011 Benefit Election form:
Required Documentation:
If you are enrolling children, please attach copies of birth/adoption certificates (long form with parents’ names) or court order documentation.
If you are enrolling a spouse/domestic partner, please submit appropriate documentation below:
* Traditional marriage–marriage license and most recent Federal or State Tax Return clearly indicating the spousal relationship….
I await your apology.
see answer to jfsgills below.
I was actually more struck by their request for a copy of my tax return, there must be an awful lot of fraud going on for them to need that.
Tim I don’t doubt that he was born where and when he says he was, the announcements of birth in 1961 (at a time when many might choose to hide the birth of a mixed race child) clinch it. I just think that they held back the long form to feed speculation and discredit those who made it. I think they played it too long to the point where they ended up looking as if they were hiding something to too many people.
I’m with Dagney77 – Frank Davis is the biological father. One needs only look at photos of Davis, Obama Sr. and Obama Jr. The genetic imilarities and differences are so obvious that any mother-in-law in the world could make the call.
However, this is a personal tragedy that is not the fault of Obama Jr. It is personally embarassing and I categorize it on the same plane as Michelle’s weight. It really is none of the public’s business.
That said, Obama should man-up and clear the issue for the good of the Republic.
jfxgillis, the datechguy made you look pretty stupid.
The issue of the missing long-form birth certificate may be a red herring designed to distract us from Obama’s parentage… namely his Kenyan father. No person born of a foreign parent is constitutionally eligible to hold the office of the presidency. At the time of Obama’s birth, Kenya was still part of the British Empire – hence his father was a subject of the crown. That is, if Obama is telling the truth about his paternity. Some analysts have speculated that Frank Marshall Davis is Obama’s real father, which may make BHO an American citizen, but it also means that he lied to the public about who and what he is. Then there is the matter of Obama’s Indonesian citizenship while a child in that nation. If he renounced his U.S. citizenship through his stepfather, that might mean he isn’t a U.S. citizen. All sorts of possbilities exist. The most troubling aspect is the pattern of deception and lies Obama has spun, about virtually every aspect of his life. He is a pathological liar and malignant narcissist. That such a man could be nominated by a major party and then “win” the White House is a very troubling sign of how far we’ve fallen as a nation and as a people. And where were those sworn to protect us against just such a Trojan Horse, i.e., Congress, the SCOTUS, et al.? Nowhere to be found.
Jfxgillis, re: “How do I know that? Because there’s no such thing as a “long form” birth certificate.” Wrong, JFX, completely so. A long-form birth certificate is a legal document, a sworn statement by the attending physician attesting to his/her presence at the birth of a given child; it may include countersignatures by other physicians or nurses, as well as palm or foot prints, and time/location of birth, and other information. Obama has a “certificate of live birth,” which is a far-less rigorous document, which may in fact be issued upon request without a LFBC to prove that the birth happened. The CLB has no attending physician signature, no prints – it is just a certificate saying someone was born in a certain time and place. The LFBC is therefore a more rigorous document, legally as well as in absolute terms.
The idea that Obama decided to hide his brith certificate as a ruse designed to make people who asked to see it look stupid is hard to believe. The more straightforward explanation is that there is something on it he wants to hide, assuming it exists. The same goes for all of his school transcripts and applications: does anyone believe he is spending a fortune on lawyers to hide these because he wants to make people who ask to see them look foolish? I’m sorry Tech Guy, your intuitiion on his birth certificate just doesn’t bear much weight. What is he hiding, who knows: citizenship, religion, real name, bad grades, low SAT or LSAT scores, affiliations. There is a good deal of evidence that his books were ghost written, and that they also contain a number of blatant falsehoods. As Donald Trump says, Obama just seems to emerge out of nowhere at about the age 30. And much of what is know is denied or downplayed: long-time association with Marxists and socialists; close association by the terrorist Bill Ayers, at least since Columbia; twenty years as a follower of the Reverend Wright (a former Muslim turned Black Liberation Theologist); unexplained trips to Pakistan; a Saul Alinsky devotee; a longtime association with ACORN; and so on. The Manchurian Candidate quality of Obama is undeniable, and his Presidency reflects a background far out of the American mainstream.
[…] then on the way to work it was the topic on the Kilmead and Friends radio show. According to Da TechGuy, it was also discussed on Morning Joe. DTG thinks it’s resonating because there are a number […]
I bet Obama will disclose all his hidden information about the time John Kerry releases his military records. These guys know the Democrat media will never do anything to harm them.
[…] Top Posts Why Trump's Birth Certificate statement will resonateThe Great Sex/Porn debate That "Gaddafi must go!"…nevermind.No boots on the ground…except for […]
TimPundit says:
March 24, 2011 at 1:06 pm
What I want to know is how Obama and his minions got two separate newspapers in Hawaii in 1961 to announce a birth from his parents of a boy named “Barack Hussein Obama”
No one has ever bothered to find out just who made that those newspaper announcements in 1961. I’m just saying this conspiracy has legs and they go back 50 years.
You are unnecessarily complicating things. There need not be any sort of conspiracy going back 50 years. I’ve read from several sources that newspaper announcements are placed automatically from a list of births provided by the State agency responsible for registering them.
Once a notification of birth is filed, the newspaper announcements follow. The Assertion is that Barack’s birth certificate is likely of the “At home birth” type, which doesn’t require actual proof of being born there, but instead will accept the statement of a close relative. (Madelyn Dunham, the Grandmother.)
Why would she file for a birth that might not have occurred in Hawaii? in 1961, American Citizenship was the most valuable Citizenship in the world. A Grandmother would be remiss if she didn’t insure her grandchild had it.
The explanation can really be THAT simple.
Let us all get some terminology straightened out. A long form birth certificate is a facsimile of the report of birth to the state agency (or county in some states) usually called the Bureau of Vital Statistics. It is reported for health, demographics, and population data. A secondary use of identifying people and their age developed afterward. This record costs more as someone has to pull a microfiche or look it up in a bound volume if it has not been digitized. This also the record that is amended or changed with court orders such as adoption, name changes, or paternity. This record is signed by the reporter. A physician, parent or other close relative with knowledge of date and time of birth. AND it has a recording date showing how soon after the blessed event it was turned over to the BVS or whatever government unit is responsible in the jurisdiction in which the birth occurred.
A short form BC is an abstract. It is some of the data put on a SHORT FORM. It is short. It is not complete, therefore it is short. It has data needed to establish place of birth, date of birth, and the last name shown on the BVS record if there have been more than one due to say adoption, name changes, amendments etc. It may or may not have parents names, but again they are the last ones given to BVS by a court or an amendment or a sworn affidavit. It does not show everything on the original such as hospital, attending physician or midwife, the recorders name for BVS etc. It is quick and cheap to produce and often all that is needed to say get your driver’s license or for a kid to start school.
Insurance companies, employers, government agencies, and lawyers are savvy to the differences in these records. One of the first things looked at are recording dates. If it doesn’t have one it is a red flag. If it is months or years later it is a red flag. There are many other problems with them if someone is trying to establish relationship, etc. I personally know someone who adopted a nephew and put him on his health insurance. The kid did not live with him, was not dependent and got all kinds of grief for fraud for trying to help out his sister. How did they catch him. The recording date on the BC.
Short forms are abstracts. Cherry picked if you are a big wig and want something left off.
datechguy says:
March 24, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Tim I don’t doubt that he was born where and when he says he was, the announcements of birth in 1961 (at a time when many might choose to hide the birth of a mixed race child) clinch it. I just think that they held back the long form to feed speculation and discredit those who made it. I think they played it too long to the point where they ended up looking as if they were hiding something to too many people.
It is provable that Stanley Ann Dunham was attending class at the University of Washington 18 days after Obama was born. One of her friends claim she was on Mercer Island 2 weeks before he was born. It is more plausible that she never left the vicinity of Seattle than that she birthed him in Hawaii. It is quite likely that he was actually born in Vancouver Canada, possibly to take advantage of Canada’s Nationalized free health care.
Grandma Dunham, upon hearing the news rushed down to the registrar’s office and filed for an “At Home birth” registration, all the while cursing her stupid daughter for not considering her son’s future. The filing automatically created the Newspaper announcements. (Notice the newspaper announcements list the Grandmother’s Address.)
That is more plausible than the notion that a man would do everything he possibly could to prevent people from knowing for sure that he’s a legitimate President just to play “mind games” with the opposition party wackos.
Whitehall says:
March 24, 2011 at 2:41 pm
However, this is a personal tragedy that is not the fault of Obama Jr. It is personally embarassing and I categorize it on the same plane as Michelle’s weight. It really is none of the public’s business.
That said, Obama should man-up and clear the issue for the good of the Republic.
If it will affect how the public votes for the man, why shouldn’t voters be entitled to know this information?
Does anyone know why he has spent over $1 million in legal fees blocking it’s release?
And what about the rest of his record (academic, theses, etc) that still remain out of the public record to this day?
I believe there is something on his birth certificate that he does not want seen. Perhaps his father is not his father, or perhaps he was born in Kenya to an American citizen, but his mother didn’t register him. Perhaps his name is not Barack Obama. Perhaps his passports and college grants given in another name to a foreign citizen. I don’t know. But there is a reason he’s doing this, and I can’t see why he would spend the money to take the chance that, as you say, the whole thing might backfire.
It’s beyond stupid. He needs to show his b/c and I’m glad Trump has taken up the mantle, for whatever reason.
[…] Da Tech Guy has more, including some informative comments. tweetmeme_style = 'compact';tweetmeme_url='http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2011/03/donald-trump-the-view-obama-show-your-birth-certificate-video-barbara-walters-on-bush-deficit/'; […]
Occam’s Razor suggests that the most logical reason to hide a common document that many of us HAVE to present at various times (in NJ, you need one to get a driver’s license) is simply that there is something on it that is (at the least) embarassing to BHO and (at the most) disqualifies him from being president. Unless you want to say that the bar should be set higher to get a NJ driver’s license than to be president, to which I would reply “and we can see the lousy results of that misbegotten idea.”
I’ve noticed that whenever the birther comments begin to die down, Obama brings it up again. Most of the nutter stuff about Obama seems to originate from the Obama camp.
I personally believe that (1) Obama was born in Hawaii; (2) Obama’s biological father was born in Hawaii; (3) Obama’s biological father was Polynesian
This brings us to the question of Obama Senior. Why would he engage in a fraudulent marriage (he had two wives in Kenya) with Stanley Dunham? Green card fraud is a possibillity, but he showed no inclination to settle in the United States. At the time, however, foreign nationals resident in the United States were eligible for Selective Service,a.k.a. the Draft. Marrying a pregnant teen-ager would give him a draft deferment–as I recall, at that time a man with a young child was given a deferment–So a check of his Selective Service records might be educational.
datechguy:
You nitwit. The “long form with parents names” is EXACTLY WHAT OBAMA HAS ALREADY RELEASED:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/n_obama_birth_certificate.htm
See the part where it says “Mother’s name” and “Father’s name”? That’s what your insurance company wants proof of, and that’s what Obama has already shown. Which means he’s already released what your insurance company demands of you.
So Let me repeat. You lie. You’re lying. You’re a liar.
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Personally I’ve never bought into the birther thing. Since I cannot find a legal definition of “natural born citizen”, I have to go by what I do know. A person born of a US citizen is a citizen by birth, I could care less if he was born somewhere else.
But some of the comments here make me think. Specifically, did his mother give up her citizenship before he was born thus not making her a US citizen. And if that is not the case, does he simply not want it known because the religion entry DOES state Muslim, so he wants to keep that hidden.
I’m much more inclined to believe the latter. THAT makes perfect sense to me why he doesn’t want to make it public.
And one other very valid issue that was brought up. If I go outside of the US, I have to have a passport which required proof of citizenship. My first cruise required only a Birth Certificate, but all I had was a carbon copied that was not certified. I had to go to the county of my birth and request a certified copy, not state or hospital issued. Since I was only traveling in the Caribbean, certainly it would only seem logical that that’s the “low end of bar”, surely the “highest end of the bar” should be anyone running and certainly elected to the Presidency. I think that’s the best argument for the “birthers”.
I’ll put $100 the BC says Muslim and that’s why it’s such a big deal. Otherwise he wouldn’t hesitate to produce it.
[…] And even the View’s audience gave him an applause. […]
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Two things Jfxgillis:
1. I presumed you were referring to the form my wife had to provide, when I said the “long form” that is what I was referring to.
2. Secondly, you are extremely ignorant, You might recall that under the privacy laws in Hawaii the original form can only be released by the permission of president Obama. To pretend you don’t know this when it has been acknowledged by the current Governor of Hawaii and supporter of the president is disingenuous.
Your name calling as opposed to argument is indicative of the left. Still awaiting your apology.
Datechguy,
I am wondering why you continue to talk to Jfxgillis, yet ignore the things i’ve been saying. I am polite, and more to the point, *I* have researched this stuff, and probably know more about it than 98% of the public. Many of the arguments that i’m seeing in the comments are easily disproven, (or demonstrably unlikely) and I have dealt with them repeatedly in other forums.
Apparently my all too plausible arguments are dismissed out of hand.
To address Rita, the term “Natural Born Citizen” comes from the book “Law of Nations” written by Emmerich Vatell. Most of the United State’s Constitution is written using that book as a blueprint. The ENTIRE purpose of the “Natural Born Citizen” requirement was to prevent someone with questionable allegiance from ever rising to the highest office this nation has to offer. In 1787, it was defined as having TWO citizen parents. The mindset of the times can easily be seen in the Naturalization act of 1790, where it is specified that the father MUST be an American citizen in order for a child to be a “Natural born citizen.” This was an act created by the FIRST Congress (basically the same group of men that WROTE the Constitution.) of the United States, and demonstrates what they believed was required to be a “Natural Born Citizen.”
Google “Naturalization act of 1790.” I’ll post the relevant part here, and you can verify that I am telling you the truth by googling it.
“…And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: . . . “
The BC issue is interesting but ancillary to an obvious deficiency of birthright.
Here’s a few facts overlooked the past couple of years;
1. Dual citizenship is incompatible with the office. John Jay said as much to General Washington, the modern State Department has reservations, and it is currently held that those who have naturalized are ineligible. The argument is premised that though some may have sworn an oath abjuring a foreign power, they are still a product of thier respective alien culture. It is recognized that the power of the government stems from a Sovereign People (substance of our Republic) and not the King’s land, a concept we renounced in the late 18th century along with perpetual allegiance.
2. There is a disconnect between what the authors of the 1868 14th Amendment intended and that of the 1898 U.S. v Wong Kim Ark court. Folks are confused as to what “born” meant prior to the decision to what it inferred afterwards regarding “natural born Citizens”. The amendment authors clearly included the allegiance and nationality of the parents as an important caveat whereas the court considered it irrelevant.
3. I challenge anyone to find precedence for VPs and Presidents born after the adoption of the Constitution that were not a product of 2 American parents born within the jurisdiction (other than Chester Arthur, who was only known recently to have been born British) as knowingly put in office by the electorate.
President Obama is the product of Kenyan-British father who had no intent to permanently domicile or naturalize. Mr. Obama was born a dual citizen. He was knowingly elected as such. But does that fact change the substance of our Republican Law? What would Presidents Jefferson and Madison or Chief Justices Jay and Story think of the eligibility of such a candidate? Why aren’t we being honest about this assessment?
-Noz (an obvious birther)
DaTG:
I know what you presumed. You presumed you could throw around words like “long form” in vague and contradictory ways so as to fuel the psycho-fire of the Birthers.
Privacy laws and Hawaii and permission and all that dreck is irrelevant. The document already produced is sufficent to settle the question of Article II Qualifications and the document already produced would have satisfied your insurance company.
However, I commend your guts and honesty in allowing my comments to be posted.
Wow, it’s unbelievable the confusion that exists around this issue. In response to some of the wrong information on this thread, let me say a couple of things:
1. The birth announcements prove only that he was born to a Hawaiian family; they say nothing about where he was born. If he was in fact born abroad, and his family (fraudulently) reported an at-home birth (in order to establish citizenship), then the notices would look exactly the same as if he had actually been born in a hospital in Honolulu.
2. All sides acknowledge that his mother was too young to have conferred citizenship upon him by herself. Look at the State Dept. website or that — the rule in question is still listed there.
3. Governor Abercrombie promised to find and show the birth certificate. When he failed to do so, he got very quiet. We don’t know why, but his friend reported and then retracted that he couldn’t find one because there isn’t one. I happen to believe that this is the truth — there’s no long form birth certificate. There’s just a (fraudulent) attestation of home birth.
4. Trump is correct to simply ask the question, “why not release the birth certificate”, but I hope he leaves the “pictures from him as a young boy’ line of attack alone, because that’s not the issue. Nobody doubts that Obama was at one time a young boy; the question is whether or not he was born in the U.S.
Diogenes Lamp: Not at all as he called me a liar I was compelled to answer due to that, but so you don’t feel left out here is what I think about your comments.
But if you wish here is what I think:
I think your statement concerning the reporter was pretty complete in itself so it doesn’t need much comment for one.
I’ve written about the Newspaper stuff myself along the same vein as you as well so of course that is not any kind of conspiracy.
I know nothing about the Canada stuff so I can’t comment intelligently on it either.
Put simply you make decent points and arguments and add to the conversation well, pleased to have you here.
jfxgillis: I have no problem accepting comments as long as they aren’t vulgar, I just resented you calling me a liar.
I’ll leave it to my readers to decide if I’m trying to fuel anything. I’ve actually written a bit about this subject in the past, you are welcome to go through the archives and comment.
As long as you aren’t vulgar, profane or defaming a friend of mine you are welcome to comment, or even call the my radio show tomorrow and tell me why I’m wrong.
Not to be a killjoy regarding Mr. Trump punking the President on his lack of transparency re the BC…but you tracking that this all recap of the 1880 election of Garfield’s running mate Chester Arthur. The press insisted that the VP (and later President) was clearly ineligible due to his foreign birth, either Canada or Ireland. The President after his death had all important documents destroyed. Hmmmm, kinda odd for someone that you would think might want folks to remember his legacy.
In the last two years it was discovered that he had in fact been born in the United States, only that his father naturalized 14 years after his birth. The man knew that the electorate would not tolerate someone of dual citizenship to occupy the office.
Anything sound familiar? Don’t be surprised if Mr. Obama suddenly finds his long form. Hell, by now he could provide ironclad paperwork showing his direct lineage to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
-Noz
I agree completely with Pieter Nosworthy that the salient point is that a man with a non-American father is completely incompatible with the founders Article 2 Intent.
However, I don’t think the birth certificate is irrelevant. Too many of the public have accepted the “bastardized” interpretation of the 14th amendment to mean if you are born here, you’re an American Citizen. (That’s not what it says, and that’s not what it means, but that’s what most people THINK it means.)
For reasons of making it easier for the public to comprehend that the man is illegitimate, demonstrating that he has no proof of birth on American soil is the easiest way.
He’s actually illegitimate because he was born with dual citizenship, but the Born on the soil thing is easier for the public to understand, and therefore more politically viable. Towards this aspect of the issue, George makes good points.
To Datechguy, i’m happy to be here. Often I get into these discussions with people who just want to shout me down before i’ve even had a chance to explain what I think and why I think it. It is refreshing to find people who will actually consider what i’ve said, even if they don’t find it persuasive.
I want to mention one more thing of which I’ve discovered most people are unaware. You cannot accept a state issued birth certificate at face value unless it includes the signature of a witness to the birth. I can prove this beyond anyone’s ability to question it.
I am adopted. The Birth Certificate the state gives me now is not true. I have my original birth certificate with my REAL Father on it. The one the State gives me now shows my adopted father as my birth father and this is simply not true, but the State will “Certify” it as true. Every State in the union will provide a birth certificate containing false information for any child that has been adopted.
Obama was adopted in 1965, (I think) by Lolo Soetoro. The missing document in Stanley Ann Dunham’s 1972 divorce papers is most likely a copy of Barack Obama’s subsequently amended birth certificaTION. (There are only 10 documents, but the list says there are supposed to be 11.)
The State’s will also go to great lengths to protect the original identities of Adopted Children. This is why you cannot accept the word of State officials as evidence. They are expected to lie and they WILL lie about birth records. Like I said, most people don’t know that.
DaTG:
“I’ll leave it to my readers to decide if I’m trying to fuel anything”
Of COURSE you’re trying to fuel something. Even better, you’re trying to fuel Trump trying to fuel something. If Trump wants to “see the certificate,” all he has to do is click the link I provided above:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/n_obama_birth_certificate.htm
So. What’s Trump doing when his demands can be easily met by clicking a link? Answer: He’s fueling the Brither crazies. As a political tactic that’s actually quite canny. Good for him. It’s a LIE because there IS a certificate. It’s a LIE that appeals to a deluded segtment of the population, and it serves his political interests to have that segment supporting him.
Anyone who deliberately and knowingly and falsely feeds the delusions of crazies for partisan tactical purposes is a LIAR. It might be an effective tactic, but it’s still a LIE.
I don’t call into radio shows. I’d guest on one, though.
“Anyone who deliberately and knowingly and falsely feeds the delusions of crazies for partisan tactical purposes is a LIAR. It might be an effective tactic, but it’s still a LIE.”
First of all, though I think the BC is ancillary to the President’s eligibility, I do hold that the BC question has some validity. The document submitted by his campaign is worthless and probably faked. The timeline of his birth with relation to his mother showing in Washington state has led some to believe that he may have been born in Canada. The laws of HI allow for registration of birth even though it may have not occurred within the state.
Second, last I checked I wasn’t crazy. I have an expectation which I consider reasonable that my President divulge certain information. His volunteering to serve was an implicit requirement that certain aspects of his life should be transparent to his constinuency (voting records and eligibility documents).
I sugggest you settle down and measure your words carefully.
-Noz
Diogenes: Thanks for the info. I had not found that information before and quite honestly hadn’t spent a great deal of time researching it. Interesting history.
jfx gillis, what is at the other end of your link is a CertificaTION, not a CertificaTE. As I pointed out above, the word of a State is WORTHLESS regarding a birth certificaTION.
Nobody is buying the B*llshit anymore. They want to see a REAL birth certificate, not a computer printout that the state officials say “Take our word for it.”
Diogenes:
I know what you pointed out. To be honest, I think the best I can say is that you’re horribly misguided. I don’t think DaTG would like it if I said the worst I can say.
I’ll say this as a generalization, though. I do not argue with Birthers. They’re either psychotically deluded or profoundly stupid, neither of which makes it worth my while to argue with.
I DO, however, sometimes take on more-or-less mainstream partisans who are not Birthers but who seek to advance the Birther agenda for as a political tactic, which is the category I put both Donald Trump and DaTechGuy in. And when I do argue with them I attack the bad faith with which they advance Birtherism.
DaTG, for instance, uses “long form” in two different ways within two sentences, dishonestly and deceptively hiding the fact that the document the insurance company demands from him, the “long form,” is the same as the document he implies is a “short form” in Obama’s case.
Pieter:
“last I checked I wasn’t crazy”
Better double-check.
OK, I am slightly nuts. Who else would pick up the standard for a couple of years regarding a point of constitutional order?
If you believe the constitution matters, that oaths to bear true faith and allegiance to the same (witnessed by God), and believe that both will assure Liberty for our progeny (Posterity)…then a little mental illness is worthwhile.
I find fault with those that have taken this issue and included the nefarious and criminal under the “birther” banner. Any question of character or acts of the current officeholder are immaterial to the constitutional question and should be but put aside. Sadly, some birthers are rabid “tin foil hat” wearin’ racist political ideologues who push the issue for selfish purpose.
The president was born a dual citizen and is thus ineligible. Nothing more, nothing less. The BC and everything else is “shiny stuff” and high drama for an audience that willfully refuses to focus on a simple point of republican order.
-Noz
jfxgillis says:
Diogenes:
I know what you pointed out. To be honest, I think the best I can say is that you’re horribly misguided. I don’t think DaTG would like it if I said the worst I can say.
Let me see if I can make my point clearer. *I* have TWO birth certificates. I can lay them out side by side. They contain COMPLETELY DIFFERENT information. The one which the State “certifies” is the FALSE one.
If you want to pretend that State Law trumps A U.S. Constitutional requirement, then it is YOU who is misguided.
A computer “print-out” of stuff a state bureaucrat typed into a computer is NOT PROOF of anything.
http://thenaturalbornpresidency.blogspot.com/2011/03/presidential-eligibility-for-dummies.html
Well? I’d love some feedback.
-Noz
FYI to all.
You might be interested in Saturday’s show, we talked about Trump with the Radio Patriot during the 2nd hour, simply click on the Fedora to download or play it.
diogenes lamp:
“The one which the State ‘certifies’ is the FALSE one. ”
Er. Where’d you get the other one from?
There is another important aspect to this topic which has not been discussed and I wish Donald Trump or whoever would bring up in future discussions. Having a leader with some potentially embarrassing undisclosed information opens him/her up to blackmail. When you apply to get a high level (more than secret) US security clearance, you have to disclose all kinds of information. Most importantly, they are not investigating you to deterimine if you are closet communist or whatever. It is to determine if you are in any way exposed to bribery (large debts etc) or blackmail (things in your past that you do not want others to know about). Some of our capable but not so friendly friends like China and Russia would not hesitate to use this leverage against us. Would not be surprising if Putin actually has already seen the original document…..would not be hard to find someone in HI government with access to bribe or blackmail. This is why COMPLETE transparency is the only option for any kiind of government leader.
jfxgillis says:
Er. Where’d you get the other one from?
From the Hospital where I was born. It is the ORIGINAL birth certificate. The one the state gives me now was modified by the judge when I was adopted. The state still has a copy of the Original, but per the order of the judge those records are sealed.
My point is, State officials will smile at you while presenting you with a copy containing false information.
Diogenes:
“It is the ORIGINAL birth certificate.”
No. It isn’t. Because it’s not a “certificate” because it’s not certified.
Seems like your real grievance is with some judge somewhere. Have you considered picketing their chambers or something?
Trump released his birth certificate.
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/donaldtrump-birthcertificate-newsmax/2011/03/28/id/390930
The Donald knows how to play this game.
jfxgillis says:
No. It isn’t. Because it’s not a “certificate” because it’s not certified.
Seems like your real grievance is with some judge somewhere. Have you considered picketing their chambers or something?
It *IS* certified; By the Doctor who witnessed it, not by the state. The Difference is that the Doctor’s word can be accepted at face value. The word of a State Bureaucrat cannot.
You still don’t get that the word “Official” doesn’t mean the same thing as “true.”
Diogenes:
That lasted all of, oh, an hour, and a nice coincidence, too.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/donald-trump/what-is-donald-trump-trying-hide-us-563901
1. The document Trump released wasn’t a birth certificate. It was a little scrap of souvenir paper that his mother apparently saved from a few days in Jamaica Hospital back in 1946. Not an official document.
2. Same as that worthless scrap you think is your “real” birth certificate.
I’m not sure which of the categories I mentioned above that Trump belongs to, but I’m leaning strongly to “profoundly stupid.”
jfxgillis says:
2. Same as that worthless scrap you think is your “real” birth certificate.
I’m not sure which of the categories I mentioned above that Trump belongs to, but I’m leaning strongly to “profoundly stupid.”
Profoundly stupid is a good term to describe someone who doesn’t believe something is real until some state official says so.
You just don’t seem to understand that my “worthless scrap” contains the truth, while the “Official, CERTIFIED!” piece of paper is a LIE. No doubt if Trump came up with a fake certificaTION of birth from Hawaii, you would accept it because you believe the word of state officials without question. You live in an Orwellian world my friend.
Two more points.
1. Where do you suppose the State GETS it’s information that it puts on the “OFFICIAL” birth certificate? From the same hospital that creates the Hospital Birth Certificate.
2. There is far more information, and far more detailed information on my Hospital birth certificate than there is on my “certified” “official” birth certificate, and again, all the information on my Hospital birth certificate is true, whereas on the State “official” birth certificate most of it is false.
.